There on NOPI suggested retail is $406.00 but you can buy for $261.00 plus shipping , can't wait till i get paid!!

 

http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore...keid=140&vmodelid=201&vcatyear=2003&vnopinum=460+1056&vTitle=HONDA Element 2003 i'm not good at posting links but i'll try

 

ha-ha, I came in to edit my post and provide some links because I found them and ended up deleting my whole post.

 

ya 400 is steep ive sen them for 2and change

 

So what is different about these bars, compared to stock? Why would you change?

paulj

 

So what is different about these bars, compared to stock? Why would you change?

paulj

Read on, Grasshopper. R.

http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/dsm/dsm20021001hs.html

 

The 'how sway bars work' tells me HOW they work, but doesn't say anything about how these aftermarket ones differ from the ones the Honda has put on the Element. It's not like you are ADDING something that is not already there. I'm pretty sure these bars replace the stock ones. But why? Is there a difference in bar diameter and stiffness? A $200 difference in bushings? A different shape that matters?

paulj

 

The 'how sway bars work' tells me HOW they work, but doesn't say anything about how these aftermarket ones differ from the ones the Honda has put on the Element. It's not like you are ADDING something that is not already there. I'm pretty sure these bars replace the stock ones. But why? Is there a difference in bar diameter and stiffness? A $200 difference in bushings? A different shape that matters?

paulj

Duh, you get the Type R badge, yo!

 

We need Strut Tower Bars, not sway bars. Nippoelement has a guy that is making them, strut bars, but they are $$$. Ya know, for how much a strut bar costs for a Civic, you think they could bend one out of any Accord or something to make it fit an E, and it wouldn't cost major bling bling. And they look sweet too.
L.

 

I have not checked the specs but I would like to think the aftermarket ones are thicker offering less sway.

I would be more interested though in the strut tower bar though.

 

We need Strut Tower Bars, not sway bars.

You must be talking about a rear strut tower bar.

Unless your E is different than mine, we already have a front strut tower bar.

To add a rear bar you would have the bar running just above the floor in the back under the rear seats. I am not sure how that would work.

 

A quick measure on my car gives 31mm for the front bar, 21 for the rear. The catalog link gives 1 3/16" for the replacement front, and 1" for the rear.

So the front bar has the same diameter, while the rear is somewhat larger. There of course could be differences in steel, hollow v solid etc.

Assuming stiffness is largely based on bar diameter, is it a good thing to increase the stiffness of the rear suspension without changing the front much? Would that upset the understeer/oversteer balance of the Element?

Admittedly my questions are largely hypothetical. Since I am more interested in driving on rough backroads than a race track, I don't need to make my suspension stiffer. Serious off-roaders have been known to disconnect the sway bars at the trail head in order to increase articulation.

A strut tower bar was mentioned. Are you aware that the Element already has such a bar that also bolts to the firewall?

paulj

 

I just took some measurements of the stock sway bars with my friend's digital caliper since I was changing the oil. You can also get the specs of the Suspension Techniques sway bars from their website:

http://stracing.com/pages/whatsnew.html

Stock Front: 29.87 mm = 1.18 in
S.T. Front: 1 3/16 in = 1.18 in

Stock Rear: 20.92 mm = .82 in
S.T. Rear: 1.00 in

Front sway bars are the same thickness!
Rear sway bars are only .18 inch thicker!

Almost $300 for .18 of an inch?! IMHO, not worth the money!

 

Geez, just paint all the stock bars a racey color and tell everyone you paid a Mugen tech $3k to custom fab them for you.:grin:

http://img102.exs.cx/img102/9251/image2498976hw.jpg

 

Geez, just paint all the stock bars a racey color and tell everyone you paid a Mugen tech $3k to custom fab them for you.:grin:

http://img102.exs.cx/img102/9251/image2498976hw.jpg

You just think you're all that and a bag of potato chips, don't ya? :grin: Yeah, that does look great. I plan on doing that when it is warmer out. I just need to get some blue paint to match my AEM intake.

And in previous posts, I don't think the E has a strut bar. It is a sway bar. A strut bar connects the top of the left and right strut to eachother. I will post a link of one from ebay for a civic in a few.
L.

 

http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore...keid=140&vmodelid=201&vcatyear=2003&vnopinum=460+1056&vTitle=HONDA Element 2003 i'm not good at posting links but i'll try

The sway bars in that picture are not the actual sway bars. The ones in that picture have end links with polyurethane bushings. I just called up Suspension Technique. The guy said the front sway bar doesn't come with any end links or polyurethane bushings at all. The rear sway bars come with two polyurethane bushings, two mounting brackets, instructions, and grease for bushings. That's it. They don't even make end links or end link bushings for the Elements.

 

Is there a difference in bar diameter and stiffness? A $200 difference in bushings? A different shape that matters?

paulj

I can't speak to *these* bars specifically, but increased diameter/stiffness (and occasionally end-link adjustability) are pretty much the reasons that you upgrade; stiffer bar = less body roll (with the price of increased ride stiffness/harshness). The shape of the bars will be very similar, as they have to replace the oem pieces, and there's only so many ways you can bend a rod between end links. The bushings are usually more along the lines of polyeurathane rather than softer rubber- again, increasing the stiffness, but with with the penalty of a harsher ride and more noise (squeaking). Upgraded bushings are usually included when you upgrade the sways as the bar diameters are different- the oem bushings just won't fit an aftermarket bar (although the mounting brackets are usually re-used). I've replaced the oem sways on three different cars I've owned (two of them were *complete* suspension rebuilds- wheels, tires, sways, shocks, struts, strut bars, bushings, end links, etc) and the best lubricant I've ever found to stop the squeaking is Energy Suspension Bushing Lubricant (called Formula5 Pre-lube). Unbelievably tacky; if you use it, be sure to use gloves, or you're tools will be literally sticking to your hands- let's just say it was a "lesson learned" from previous installs. R.

 

And in previous posts, I don't think the E has a strut bar. It is a sway bar. A strut bar connects the top of the left and right strut to eachother.

Hey SRLNCLT!

What do you think that red bar mounted between the right and left upper strut towers is?

That is the stock strut tower bar installed in every single E ever made.
However Empire has painted his a nice red, two thumbs up for that Empire!


At this point I refer you back to my original post.

 

Just ordered mine about 20 mins ago , hopefully it will be here by this weekend for the install . I'll let you all know how good it really is

 

Hey SRLNCLT!

What do you think that red bar mounted between the right and left upper strut towers is?

That is the stock strut tower bar installed in every single E ever made.
However Empire has painted his a nice red, two thumbs up for that Empire!


At this point I refer you back to my original post.

Take a look at these pics. This shows a strut bar installed on a Civic. It attaches to the bolts on the actual strut top mounts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4540032101&category=6256

Here is what one looks like by itself.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7966435320&category=33591

Here are sway bars. This is what I think the E comes with.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7965254926&category=33592

A while back I was asking about this same thing. I think it was Empire that posted pics from Majestic Honda and they are called sway bars. Correct me if I am wrong.
L.

 

Check out this link towards the end.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11285
L.

 

The strut tower is attached to the body with a ring of 3 bolts. The stock bar (painted red in the pictures) is attached to the body with 2 bolts less than an inch from one of the strut tower bolts.

The aftermarket Civic strut tower bar bolts to a ring, which in turn is attached with the 3 strut tower bolts. This would allow you to remove to bar to work on the engine without loosening the tower bolts.

I have seen pictures of an aftermarket bar for the CRV (2nd gen) that has Y ends, and attahes with two of the strut tower bolts.

While the factory bar does not use the strut tower's bolts, it still serves to limit the movement of the tops of the towers, and attached body, on curves. It may even work better than an aftermarket Civic type bar since it also bolts to the firewall.

paulj

 

There is a bit more to sway bars (as opposed to strut bars) than diameter of the bar and solid or hollow. You can also make a bar functionally stiffer by attaching the end link in a different spot. Some bars are made with multiple end link mounting positions.

The main reason to change existing sway bars is to alter the handling characteristics of a vehicle. By increaseing the stiffness of a bar you increase roll stiffness. If you increase roll stiffness at the rear in relation to the front the car will understeer less. Smaller (less stiff) in front will have the same effect. Increasing both at the same ratio will leave the handling the same but reduce "sway".

The thing about aftermarket bars is you have to really dig to find out how they will affect your car. In other words will the ST bars cause the E to oversteer or just make it understeer less? Will the effect on the FWD models be different than the 4WD? It would sure be nice if you could get a better idea of what change to expect from their adds.

 

Just ordered mine about 20 mins ago , hopefully it will be here by this weekend for the install . I'll let you all know how good it really is

Make sure you take some side by side pictures to help demonstrate the differences if any.
I would not mind doing anything to help get rid of some of the body roll the E exhibits.
Really bad on the off / on ramps to the hwy.

 

Geez, just paint all the stock bars a racey color and tell everyone you paid a Mugen tech $3k to custom fab them for you.:grin:

http://img102.exs.cx/img102/9251/image2498976hw.jpg

Damn nice Empire, I got this pic in another thread and meant to ask you what type of high heat paint did you use for the bar and engine covers?
I'd like to do mine in blue to match the interior.